Inclusive Marketing, How Not to Do It | What They Said: The Influencer Marketing Podcast | Ep.8

Join us in the latest episode of "What They Said" as we sit down with the incredible Lucy Edwards, journalist, broadcaster, and disability advocate, who shares her inspiring journey and valuable insights on accessibility, content creation, and the power of storytelling.

- Finding Joy Through Content Creation Lucy discusses how losing her eyesight led her to discover the joy of creating videos. She emphasises the importance of making visual content accessible to everyone, highlighting the crucial role of image descriptions in bringing visuals to life.

- Accessibility in Professional Settings Lucy and Sammy dive into the challenges of working with brands and influencers from an accessibility perspective. They stress the need for screen reader-friendly documents and inclusive practices.

- Consult those with lived experiences: We hear how there has to be the inclusion of accessibility features in all aspects of content creation and that the most important part of this process is consulting individuals with lived experiences to ensure practical and impactful accessibility measures.

- Future of Inclusive Content Creation The episode concludes with a discussion on the future of content creation and the ongoing need for accessibility within it.

Tune in now to learn how to make your content more accessible and inclusive! 🎧

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Transcript

Sammy Albon: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to the What They Said to Influence Our Marketing podcast powered by PrettyGreen, the global integrated comms agency. I am Sammy, your host. of this delectable podcast where we dive into everything to do with the creator economy. And I've been joined by some fantastic guests throughout the season, uh, and I'm super, super excited to be joined by a very special guest today.

Sammy Albon: Um, there's actually two in the room, uh, one that you can't see that I'll introduce you to. She, she's the real icon here. 

Lucy Edwards: She is.

Sammy Albon: She's the real icon. But I am joined by Lucy Edwards. 

Lucy Edwards: Hello Sammy.

Sammy Albon: How are you? 

Lucy Edwards: Nice to see you again. 

Sammy Albon: Yeah, I'm all right. Good, good. I have, um, I've got a little bio for you. But, um, I feel like since I wrote this, maybe just two weeks ago, it's already outdated.

Sammy Albon: Because you are potentially the busiest influencer I've ever met.

Lucy Edwards: I'm running. 

Sammy Albon: What can't she do? An octuple threat. Um, but look Lucy, you're a broadcaster. You are an influencer. You're a creator. You've touched every single platform, you've [00:01:00] done a lot in terms of blind activism and making sure that accessibility and D& I is at the very core of everything you do.

Lucy Edwards: Yeah. 

Sammy Albon: Um, I would find it hard to say exactly one big successful thing for you. Um, so for our listeners who have perhaps not come across your content, what's your proudest moment as a creator? 

Lucy Edwards: Oh, wow. Um, I think definitely a couple of years ago, becoming a Pantene ambassador. 

Sammy Albon: Yes. 

Lucy Edwards: But, That's how I met you guys, but not only was it the modeling and that being just amazing, I think for me it was truly highlighting the kind of gaps for my community and like really not it not just being a tokenistic modeling job.

Lucy Edwards: It was. you know, for me really digging deep into what the VI community needed and making the packaging accessible for all. 

Sammy Albon: and how was that received by the community? 

Lucy Edwards: It was so, it was super cool. I think NaviLens now as a whole, so NaviLens, um, just for anyone who doesn't know, yeah, it's like a little, [00:02:00] It's a little, it's a little square that you can print on any packet, but it's, it's basically a cluster of geometric shapes.

Lucy Edwards: Right. Um, so it doesn't look like a traditional barcode at all, but the reason that it looks like that is because for me as a blind person, I've been 11 years blind and you know, traditional barcodes are really hard to scan, you know, they're not tactile, neither is NaviLens. It's not tactile at all. But what the amazing thing about this is.

Lucy Edwards: It's way more, like, it's easier to pick up with your camera on your phone. So you 

Sammy Albon: aim your camera at it, you need an app. 

Lucy Edwards: You need an app. It's um, free to download and then it scans, but it, it not only tells you, you know, everything that the person slash brand loads onto it, so it's ingredients, price, all that jazz.

Lucy Edwards: But also you can load links on there, tutorials, and the proximity is really cool. So I walk into a shop and if it literally scans like a tiny pixel of it, that's why it's so geometric shapey. You 

Sammy Albon: [00:03:00] don't need to perfect, obviously for the VI community to be able to. line it up exactly with a camera. 

Lucy Edwards: Yeah, 

Sammy Albon: it just detects it from the smallest amount.

Lucy Edwards: Literally also, it's like it's got this 3D sound capability now in it and I just walked and I feel like a cyborg walking into it and be like, yes it's over there and I mean Ms. Miles walk to it. So, 

Sammy Albon: so for people listening as well, I'm sure you're going to refer to Maleficent, Miss Moles, Molly May, whichever name comes to you in the moment.

Sammy Albon: Uh, Moles, Molly, is Lucy's wonderful guide dog who features in your content very regularly. In fact, is it her content? 

Lucy Edwards: Really? Yeah. To be honest, everyone says hi to Miss Moles more than me. And I think it's very right. It's just an accessory to her. I'm the accessory, she's the fluttery eyes, um, she's even got a little cold wing eyeliner, Sammy.

Sammy Albon: Has she?

Lucy Edwards: Just naturally, au naturel. She's so beautiful. 

Sammy Albon: She's an icon. Um, she's working very hard. 

Lucy Edwards: She is.

Sammy Albon: But she came up for a fuss for a moment, a moment ago, so I had to indulge. 

Lucy Edwards: Because she's met you [00:04:00] before, Sammy, so she's like, hi friend. 

Sammy Albon: I just, I feel like a dog whisperer, you know, it's my thing.

Sammy Albon: Um, but no, Lucy, I think you've done so much work around DE&I and I feel like. I'm not putting words in your mouth here. There's still quite a lot to be done within the creative economy, within marketing online. Um, and you've been at the forefront of pushing for that innovation. Could you tell us a little bit about the work that you've done having a platform?

Lucy Edwards: Yeah. Um, 

Sammy Albon: beyond NaviLens, um, I think you do a lot of consultation, you do a lot of, uh, advisory work, particularly with us as well. You're on our PrettyGreen D& I board. 

Lucy Edwards: I am. 

Sammy Albon: And you support us on that journey, which we'll get into in a moment. Um, how far have things come in the creative economy and how far do we have to go?

Lucy Edwards: I am constantly, like my inbox is constantly flooded with Um, you know, requests, and I think that's really good because if you look at the landscape before, I guess, the pandemic, there wasn't that consciousness, [00:05:00] I don't feel, there wasn't that ability to really sit up and say, you know, what are we doing with D& I policy and are disabled people represented?

Lucy Edwards: You know, we were never necessarily in the picture, but I think now people are saying, Oh, maybe we do need lived experience, like people with lived experience around the table. And how do we do that? So, you know, it can be from me talking internally to brands, which I do quite regularly, I'm always on the motorway to London, because I live in Brum.

Lucy Edwards: Um, and you know, I. You know, I was talking to Sainsbury's last week, just trying to understand like what their staff members can get out of D& I policy and my story. So it's, it's taking inspiration from the talks that I do. And then I guess consulting, you know, traditional modeling contracts, um, with, you know, talent or influences these days, I think there's a massive shift and there's going to be, I think we're, you know, not over the past few years, you know, I've obviously got that consultancy element as well as the modeling, which is [00:06:00] Super cool.

Lucy Edwards: But I think we're going to see brands really taking people like myself within internally into positions because if you can change a culture, then the ad campaign is way more authentic and has a wider impact. Yeah, so I think that's what we're going to say. And there's a massive shift to that. I mean, even with the work, I'm so proud of the work I do with you guys as well.

Lucy Edwards: I think it's really super cool that, you know, you want to, as soon as we met, you know, then you've got so many people on your roster that you work with every day that you're just like, well, no, we need to represent the community that we serve. And, um, yeah, we're just doing website bits, aren't we? At the moment.

Lucy Edwards: Yeah. 

Sammy Albon: Around accessibility for the website. I feel you've, you've segwayed onto it nicely, but there's a lot I want to unpack around that because I feel as though, um, I think a lot of people, and we've discussed this before, there's a lot of inertia from brands and agencies and just people in general who perhaps don't have someone from the VR community or anyone living with a disability in their [00:07:00] life or within their business.

Sammy Albon: So through lack of Knowledge, don't ask questions, and I'm sure you'd rather people ask questions and get it wrong so you can then educate them as opposed to asking, never asking at all and never engaging with the topic. 

Lucy Edwards: Yeah. 

Sammy Albon: Um, one thing that I've found, particularly in my journey at PrettyGreen, that's been really interesting and something that I hadn't ever considered, is working with you as a creator, briefing you.

Sammy Albon: So when brands send you a brief for content or for work or whatever, making sure that it's screen reader, um, suitable and appropriate. So many agencies I know put a lot of effort into wonderfully polished PDF documents. Um, and it will be bright colors and it'll be black and white text and it won't be not only accessible on a screen reader, neurodivergent, uh, friendly, it won't be as accessible in that regard as well.

Sammy Albon: So. One of the things we've completely overhauled with your guidance has been the way we brief influencers. Yeah. Because often there's a lot of hidden disabilities too, um, whether that comes to, uh, mental disabilities or physical. [00:08:00] So making sure that, um, We're encouraging our team to brief influencers fairly.

Sammy Albon: So that's been something I've personally found really interesting and something I'd never considered. So I need to be quite proud of the, of the PDF documents with lovely images, but there'd be no image descriptions. There'd be none of that in there. 

Lucy Edwards: And it just doesn't light up your world. I think that the A is for all framework.

Lucy Edwards: I think I, I love it because I felt like, Before that, I wasn't, I was needing to ask my management or, you know, people within my team that I pay internally because I've had access worker, I get a grant from the government as a blind director, or, you know, you can get one as a disabled employee. We're very lucky in the UK.

Lucy Edwards: Um, and there is a pot of money that you can access if you have access needs, but, you know, I, I do have to access that very frequently even today and delegate tasks that I don't necessarily want to have to do. Um, even with agencies who are not [00:09:00] as, you know, up to date as you guys. Um, trying to understand what is in front of me because yeah, I do love a pretty image as you say, but it's like, how do we bring that to life for everybody?

Sammy Albon: To enjoy on the same level. 

Lucy Edwards: Yeah, to enjoy on the same level. Because I just hear graphic, graphic, graphic. Yeah. And, you know, if I'm going to the screen 

Sammy Albon: reader reads out to you? Yeah. Yeah. Image. And there's no description. 

Lucy Edwards: Just image, image, image, image. Or a lot of the time I'm hovering over something and it's, um, I don't know, whatever they've named the image.

Lucy Edwards: Yeah. JPG and loads of numbers. 

Sammy Albon: So it's a, a pg and you're like, that doesn't, like you said, shine a light. What was the saying you just said It was really nice. 

Lucy Edwards: I, I, well, I doesn't light at my world. For me life took your world. Yeah. I just, I just feel. With audio description, with, with the ability to kind of use your words.

Lucy Edwards: And I think through journalism and working at the BBC, I've just, I've really appreciated storytelling in a way. And I know that probably sounds scary. Like, Oh my God, write a story underneath your photo. It's not really about that, but it's like the focal point of the image. What do you look at as [00:10:00] soon as you see that image?

Lucy Edwards: You know, what is the main thing about it that you see? And even if you just give a couple of sentences, you know, it's That is enough to try and understand and also then you're going to get a better result from your, you know, if you talent you're working with. Yeah, because 

Sammy Albon: more people can enjoy it.

Lucy Edwards: Exactly. 

Sammy Albon: So just there's two things, Lucy, you're getting on all the points that I want to touch on. You um, touched on A's for all. So I'll come back to that in a moment for just while we're on this image description point. And for me as well, I think I could benefit from your knowledge on this. How much information is perfect because I think sometimes the reason people won't put an image descriptor is because they don't know what to put.

Lucy Edwards: Yeah. 

Sammy Albon: Um, so what, what is the perfect, say we've got a seaside image and there's two people on the beach with fish and chips. What, what do you want? Is that perfect, that description I just gave you? 

Lucy Edwards: I think, yes. I think, What I would say, don't be scared. I think there's um, a [00:11:00]massive worry and I can, I can see where people are coming from in even just trying.

Lucy Edwards: So it's about getting over that and doing what you just did. Me and you, because we've met before, but also we're, we're so kind of, naturally in the way that we communicate, we're not scared to kind of even just say that. So for one, even if that was a description, I think that's perfectly fine. And it's about giving it a go.

Lucy Edwards: But number two, I think how we can craft that a bit more maybe is I always say friends can describe. So we say we see a focal point first. So if it is a person on the beach with fish and chips, like what are they wearing? Have they got sand? Mm-Hmm. You know, in between their toes or if they like, I don't know, their kid dug up the sand around them and they're burying them.

Lucy Edwards: Or is there a bucket? Yeah, like, and what color is their t-shirt? Um, and is there any expression on their face that you would want to convey that gives like very emotion, 

Sammy Albon: an idea of the vibe of the image. 

Lucy Edwards: An idea of the vibe of the image. So that's the focal point. The sea is Friends Can [00:12:00] Describe, so the sea is the context.

Lucy Edwards: So then we say, you know, in the second sentence, it's a seaside scene. And the general image, um, you know, sorry, the first, the first bit, you'd also mention the fish and chips. But there's the second bit, you'd maybe say it's a seaside image on a rainy day or in Devon, or it's a pebbly beach. And then the describe, and then it's the detail.

Lucy Edwards: So if you want to add stuff after that, I would, I would Kind of ward away if if writing briefs and pictures for really long descriptions, so you might want to just 

Sammy Albon: Because also you need to get through that information as well. 

Lucy Edwards: Exactly. So me as a business woman, I'm like, I love a couple of sentences.

Lucy Edwards: Perfect. Yeah. But a detailed description, exactly like compact Bijou we love. And then the description at the end. 

Sammy Albon: We use, we use the term neat and petite in the influencer team. We want to keep every email, every bit of communication, every image description, neat and petite. Ain't no one [00:13:00] got time to read for a body of text.

Sammy Albon: You want to keep it nice and sweet. 

Lucy Edwards: Exactly. But I do love a bit of detail because I think the curiosity in me is like, do they have a Kurt Geiger bag? I would love that. 

Sammy Albon: And if it's a seaside day in the UK, of course it's raining. 

Lucy Edwards: Yeah, exactly. 

Sammy Albon: You can tell where my head's at. It's nearly lunchtime. I was like fish and chips on the beach.

Sammy Albon: I'd rather be right now. Me and Molly in the sand.

Lucy Edwards: I've never heard Meat and Petite though, that's so funny. 

Sammy Albon: Meat and Petite? 

Lucy Edwards: Did you say Meat and Petite? 

Sammy Albon: No, Meat. I feel like Meat and Petite is a very different I 

Lucy Edwards: thought the meat of the email you were going 

Sammy Albon: Do you know what? This brief is Meat and Petite.

Lucy Edwards: Very meaty. I 

Sammy Albon: don't know. As I told you, these podcasts go all sorts of ways. 

Lucy Edwards: I'm a vegetarian, Sammy. 

Sammy Albon: I am as well. I've not had a sausage in years 

Lucy Edwards: Fair play. I don't miss it though, do you? 

Sammy Albon: Do you know what I do miss? 

Lucy Edwards: Go on. 

Sammy Albon: I just make the McDonald's. 

Lucy Edwards: Yeah, I get you. I absolutely love a McDonald's burger. A Chicken [00:14:00] Royale.

Sammy Albon: I do love a McPlant burger. 

Lucy Edwards: We do. 

Sammy Albon: Um, you've, again, this, this is perfect. So we spoke about A is for All. And I feel like what I found really exciting since joining PrettyGreen. So I've been here about two, two and a bit years. And that was when this A is for all framework came into place. And I know you had a hand in advising us on the form that takes when the touch points that is appropriate for, I'll just briefly describe what the A is for framework is.

Sammy Albon: So I think we saw post 2020, um, a lot of conversation around DNI within marketing. Unfortunately, I don't think that momentum continued to today. So. As an agency, we've set up the A's for all framework with advisors like Lucy, where across all of our, um, touch points, we are fully accountable for, if it's an influencer campaign, uh, representing age, gender, race, religion, sex, [00:15:00] we're not, we're eliminating unconscious bias from that process.

Sammy Albon: We're making sure that there's ability represented. Um, and I think age is a real particular one within influence marketing as well. Often it's a lot of young people, but we know there's families, there's older people. But when it comes down to working with suppliers for events and production, we're making sure that our supplier list is really inclusive, um, that it's not just straight white men that we're working with.

Sammy Albon: I'm the worst demographic, so absolutely cut me out when we can. But what it does, and it's been really enlightening for me, and of course you're not always going to get it right, and it's an ever evolving thing, We take clients on the journey with us and we have some kind of a social contract with them where we say, you know, this short list of influences is inclusive of all of these different, um, points that I just mentioned.

Sammy Albon: So our challenge to you is making sure that campaign is as inclusive as possible. That's just from an influence perspective. There's so many different ways, um, even into the way that we run the business and the core functions of the business, we embrace as [00:16:00] for all. So we've Lucy's help and our DNI board is establishing this framework for success.

Sammy Albon: that, uh, is inclusive and that runs through all points of the business. And then it's taking journey influencers, um, sorry, brands on that journey as well, when it comes to working with influencers. So I don't know how, how involved you were at the beginning, but you've definitely advised us on that. 

Lucy Edwards: Yeah. I, you know what, I think a lot of it was, we did a bit of a framework for pan 10 and I remember sitting down with your team and then also the kind of, wider kind of advert agency and also Pantene and thinking, you know, we've got these products that are completely inclusive and accessible.

Lucy Edwards: How do we write a bit of a social media framework to go out to the influencers who are also promoting Silky and Glowing? Um, and how can we make this wider? And then, I think, to be honest, you guys took it that one step further because I mentioned to one of [00:17:00] you, Oh, the brief isn't accessible, and you flew with it.

Sammy Albon: Yeah, I remember that. So I wasn't here then, but I remember seeing the tail end of that conversation, where it's almost like the audacity of working with someone who's visually impaired, you've advised us on the framework, then the brief we give you isn't accessible. And like, that ties into what I said earlier, where I think it is, it's not ever really, and it certainly wasn't in my previous work, roles a consideration.

Lucy Edwards: Yeah. 

Sammy Albon: It was just get the campaign done, brief the influencers, move on. Yeah. But now it's actually taking you on that journey and making sure that you feel valued by the brand and the agency. I mean, to make sure you can even interpret the brief is kind of important. 

Lucy Edwards: Defo. I mean, but I also think that It was a conversation with you guys.

Lucy Edwards: Like it didn't ever feel like a conversation that I could have with any other agencies. It felt a bit like, Oh, you know, I just, I just, I'm so conscientious. Like me and my team always want to get our work done. And we always hit the deadlines, if not early, we just, you know, we're so [00:18:00]proud of that. And I think, you know, with you guys, it was like, well, no, it's like, you need to be able to see yourself and how do you do that?

Lucy Edwards: And why do you do that? And I was like, What? 

Sammy Albon: Yeah, it

Lucy Edwards: was, it was really cool. Um, I think it was probably like a, maybe like six months in. Yeah. Um, and I think also when you're that new, you're like, I don't know whether I want to ask, but can I ask? 

Sammy Albon: Yeah, and that's what you're thinking. I'm lucky just to be paid for what I do, aren't you?

Sammy Albon: Exactly. Well, 

Lucy Edwards: we're so lucky and I think, you know, it's brilliant that how we've evolved the framework to even, you know, going to, I know a lot of my wheelchair user friends say, you know, There's so many London venues that are just not accessible for wheelchair users. How do we put this in the framework?

Lucy Edwards: And you know, I don't know. It's just been a delight to work with you really. 

Sammy Albon: No, thank you. I feel, I feel like, um, definitely one point you just touched on there is, [00:19:00] you know, access as well. And I think there's so many events I've been to. My time as a creator before this as well, where it wouldn't be street level access, it would be up 15 flights of stairs, down a corridor in the basement of some London dingy apartment.

Sammy Albon: And it's like, that, that's not. welcoming firstly, but also how can everyone access this space? And there's definitely been moments where there's been conventions, for example, where influencers who are in wheelchairs are unable to enjoy the full experience. Um, so it's definitely, I think I've taken almost like the A's for all as well as my own personal life and just seeing how I obviously never understand your experience, but how inaccessible so many spaces are.

Sammy Albon: And it feels like something that we should just be embracing generally in marketing. 

Lucy Edwards: You're an ally, Sam. I am an ally. You are, you're an ally now. And this is the thing, like, I think nothing, nothing about us without us. You've seen, you know, you need, you need to consult people with lived experience. And now you're like, well, now I've seen it, I can't unsee it.

Sammy Albon: [00:20:00] Exactly that. And I feel like I was almost quite ignorant before. So I'm making this about me. This is my therapy session. But I feel like I was quite ignorant before and actually due to your work as well. It's just really interesting seeing and really hopeful that all these brands are taking up your time to find out how they can do better.

Sammy Albon: I wanted to talk a bit about about your journey as a creator. You've done so much, you're now a seasoned broadcaster, you're with the BBC, you're with the big dogs. But where did it all begin? And at which moment did you think, I'm gonna be a content creator? 

Lucy Edwards: Yeah, I remember losing my eyesight and feeling wretched and put it Putting on the camera was kind of some of my only happy moments.

Lucy Edwards: I remember feeling so excited that I was like, Oh my gosh, I don't have anyone in my life that is blind. And I used to Google the word blindness and nothing would come up. And I just thought, yeah, absolutely nothing, Sammy. And I just thought, I've got to do something here. You know, I felt so lost with my sense of self.

Lucy Edwards: [00:21:00] I was 17. You know, and I was like, I just want to think and do more makeup. It's such a visual thing. So I put on the camera and to be honest, it wasn't the most glamorous video because I was with Ollie at the time, even then. And, um, we did the voiceover with our, my mother in law's washing machine in the background.

Lucy Edwards: So it was lovely. 

Sammy Albon: Lo fi, I love that. 

Lucy Edwards: Exactly. 

Sammy Albon: Was that on YouTube? 

Lucy Edwards: Yeah, it was on YouTube and it was, um, called Blind Girl Does Her Own Makeup. And I was like, Ollie, that video is so gonna go viral. I'm so excited. Yeah, it did. It was cool. It was super cool. And that's how we got like a bit of a following on YouTube, but it became my portfolio to then go to the BBC and say, like, look, I really want to be a presenter.

Lucy Edwards: And then it kind of, the way we kind of properly got into influencer marketing with our business, um, was the pandemic really, I had, I had a bit of a lull in my. reporting work for Radio 4. And I thought, right, there's all these headlines on my phone. [00:22:00] I'm going to just tell people how I do things. Like even talking to my friends, they'd be like, no, sometimes we don't really know how you do, you know, everyday tasks at home.

Lucy Edwards: Yeah. And even they were wondering, they've known me for like 12 years. So I was like, okay, maybe, maybe we need, how does a blind girl. And it was kind of crafted like that because of my broadcast training. I was like, let's do like a little, You know, the first three seconds. Catchy. Um, get their attention.

Lucy Edwards: And it was always like, we zoom into my face and it'd be unflattering or like, I don't know, I'd chuck something at the camera. Um, but I love it. And, uh, it kind of had a blank. I was bored. And then from all that we, we signed up to tick tock in August, 2020. And by December we had a million followers. Wow.

Sammy Albon: Yeah. 

Lucy Edwards: From August to 

Sammy Albon: December, you went. up to a million followers. So would you say, I think, um, back in my time as a creator, YouTube was definitely a place where you grew the most dedicated audience and then you took it elsewhere with you. 

Lucy Edwards: Yeah. 

Sammy Albon: It feels like you, you owned your skills on YouTube and then you went to other platforms.

Sammy Albon: Is that fair to say? 

Lucy Edwards: [00:23:00] I agree. I think TikTok was my baby and still is, and it's where we grew our following. But I adore YouTube, I adore the commenters on YouTube, like, they're so super sweet and they've been following me since my channel was called Yesterday's Wishes and I was like, don't wish for yesterday, wish for tomorrow, and I was telling myself that really.

Sammy Albon: Well it's positive that you're messaging for yourself. 

Lucy Edwards: Yeah. Do 

Sammy Albon: you, um, do you find joy in creating content? 

Lucy Edwards: I do. 

Sammy Albon: You do? 

Lucy Edwards: I do. I think, yeah. I'm not gonna lie, it's been up and down the past year, just through like, really pushing myself out of my comfort zone and really being like, wow, this is a business now.

Lucy Edwards: And I think the first couple of years you do something, you're like, this is such a whirlwind. And then you're like, okay, this is me now, this is my identity. And it's super cool, but this is a job and I, you know, how am I pushing myself forward in the ways that I really want to go. And I think it's like tailoring.

Lucy Edwards: You know, it's, [00:24:00] it's seeing me as a personal brand now. Like, Whoa, this, you know, this is not just something that's cool. This is something that I now have to strategize. I now have to think about, yeah, exactly. And then it's like, Ooh, I, I'm the earner. Like I employ my husband, I employ my sister. Like, so then there's like a different level of just whacking out a camera.

Lucy Edwards: Now it's like. How do we craft the messaging? But then there's also cool moments where me and Ollie just still have fun and are just sitting there. Go to a premiere. Yeah, exactly. You actually, 

Sammy Albon: I need to explain why you're so well dressed. And I'm not. You're off to a Bridgerton event this afternoon, this evening.

Sammy Albon: But I can't be.

Sammy Albon: I feel screwed over. I was like, I'm going to wear a nice jumper today. And you both turned up, Ollie's in a suit, you're in like a gown. 

Lucy Edwards: Yes, Molly is. But 

Sammy Albon: this is why it's so interesting. I think following your journey has been really, really inspiring [00:25:00] for me to a lot of other up and coming influencers, um, because you do bridge that gap between you.

Sammy Albon: Traditional and mainstream and then social as well and having that profile. But you touched on a really interesting point and I think this is still a misconception within this, within the creative economy is that you are a business. Yeah. And you have employees and you are strategic, you're creative and a businesswoman.

Sammy Albon: And I think often times, I think a lot of brands misinterpret that. This happy go lucky influencer on the internet having no business savvy mindset. You are just stumbling around hoping for the best, but actually you've got a team, you've got your, you've got your schedule in your diary. Do you, how has it been, how do I word this, how has it been helping brands understand that you have your own timelines, that you are essentially a production studio as well?

Lucy Edwards: Um, I think, I think easier now that I'm more established. I think at the start, because, [00:26:00] right, I think. Just as a whole, we don't have a sort of industry standard for being a creator. So you're kind of, at the start, it's the wild west. You're like, what do I charge? What talent manager do I go with? Who, how do I push this forward?

Lucy Edwards: Like, is there like, a way that I need to formulate my videos? Or is it just, post and hope for the best or, you know, and, and then it's also like burnout because we have to keep posting and, you know, to run our business. So I think that's definitely a conversation, but I think brands as a whole definitely are listening now, I would say more in the past year about when we, we feel more confident to push back on brief saying that this, this, this style, if we open the video like that, that will just not work.

Lucy Edwards: You know, we just, we just don't feel that it will work for our audience. So like, Yeah. Fair, fair. Can they listen to you on that? You know, yeah. Some who have been doing it for ages and are kind of more like long, long standing brands, I guess they have more of a formula and a [00:27:00]marketing technique. But I think the, the people who are listening and to the pushback on with creators, that it's getting more results.

Lucy Edwards: I think as a whole. We've still got such a long way to go in, like really looking after creators, trying to craft ability for holiday, understanding that, you know, yes, you can say like, put out that piece of content in 0. 5 seconds. I need it now, now, now, but you are going to get a more compromised bit of content that isn't as thought about.

Lucy Edwards: Um, and it, you know, I think there are people that still go, Oh, you know, we just need a video. And Okay. 

Sammy Albon: Okay. You touched on a really interesting point that actually resonated with me because, um, when I was a creator for those years, I have found taking a holiday was really hard. It's tough. Um, and this, this was up until like 2018, 2019, so it was a different time, but I did look back and I think I could count on one hand the holidays I had over eight years.

Sammy Albon: It [00:28:00] was. It's quite difficult to find that time. Um, so how do you switch off? How do you disconnect Lucy Edwards, who is this presenter, broadcast influencer, to your persona you are at home, with Molly Mae, with Ollie, where you're just relaxing? 

Lucy Edwards: In the last six months. I've got so much better. 

Sammy Albon: Have you? 

Lucy Edwards: Yeah.

Lucy Edwards: Um, I think when we first met, I would work weekends seven days a week. I didn't have a break for two years. Wow. Yeah. Pretty much. Other than 

Sammy Albon: your wedding. 

Lucy Edwards: Yeah. Pretty much. And then past that, I just thought I can't do this anymore. I am not a machine. I am a human being. 

Sammy Albon: And there's power in saying no to things.

Lucy Edwards: Yeah. And there's power in saying no. And also being like, is this something I really want to do? Or am I just saying. Yes, because I'm so grateful for this opportunity. And yes, I am so super grateful for every opportunity that I get. But I think I was like, Oh my gosh, they're giving me a job. I'm blind. You know, this is [00:29:00] amazing.

Lucy Edwards: I felt grateful in the wrong way. And. I wanted to feel grateful in the right way, and that's what I feel like I am. 

Sammy Albon: It needs to be constructive. It's not, it's not, you don't need a pity job. You're here to do good work, and you're doing well. 

Lucy Edwards: Exactly. And it's about having a team that really respects your time as well.

Lucy Edwards: I just think we are in such a good place as a team. My internal team, my external team, my PR team. Like, all of us, there's like, 

Sammy Albon: in harmony, 

Lucy Edwards: in harmony. Yeah, definitely. 

Sammy Albon: Can we talk about that. I think that you've touched on your team several times. 

Lucy Edwards: Yeah. 

Sammy Albon: We've got your lovely Ella here from your, from the agency that represents you.

Sammy Albon: Um, what would you say to influencers who are thinking, and this is a problem, this is something I ask influencers that come on the podcast, when should they start considering talent management, or building a team around them. 

Lucy Edwards: When you feel that uploading videos yourself is becoming [00:30:00] your seven day a week.

Lucy Edwards: You're not having a break. You're not having a rest. 

Sammy Albon: You need that resource. 

Lucy Edwards: You need the resource. And I think also Yes, it is about the numbers in some, in some senses, but that there are a lot of micro influencers that are so super successful. You'd never know the link clicks that they're getting. You'd never know the engagement that they're getting until you, you speak to an agency, reach out for yourself and really analyze like whether that is something for you.

Lucy Edwards: Maybe it is a conversation, you know, no matter how many followers you've got because of the engagement and reach and then, you know, what's the harm they can do? They can only say no. And I always believe in that, that like every time, you know, I fail every week and just asking people for advice or like having a coach, a sounding board is, is not a bad thing.

Lucy Edwards: And I love it because I feel like. As creators, we're becoming this more unified kind of, I don't know, [00:31:00] conscionable sector of society. That's like, no, we exist and we need, you know, rights as well. And I think, you know, the more we put out there about what we charge and who we're with and what management, you know, what we should be accepting from management or how to run a team or how to be a CEO, then how to branch out.

Lucy Edwards: I think. It will give more confidence to more people. So yeah, as I said, I think I've got a project at the moment with Billion Dollar Boy called 529, and it's exploring, like, uploading on a massive platform, um, you know, things that we just don't talk about, you know, and money is, especially being a British person, we're like, oh no, don't talk about money.

Lucy Edwards: We don't take 

Sammy Albon: payment. We don't take payment. We do things for free. Yeah, right, you know. Doesn't pay rent, does it? No. Um, I think that I think that's a really fair point and PrettyGreen is part of the influence marketing trade body as well and where essentially the IMTB lobbies the ASA and CAP for better, fairer rules for [00:32:00] influencer.

Sammy Albon: So I think it's safe to say the scrutiny that influencers receive for branded work is in no way equal to what a celebrity would get. 

Lucy Edwards: Did you see um, Tala?

Sammy Albon: I know. How do you feel about that? 

Lucy Edwards: Uh, 

Sammy Albon: for context, um, Tala, run by Grace Beverley, is a brand that is owned by a creator and there's been a ruling that for a while, actually, that influencers who run their own brands or run or sell their own product should be disclosing that commercial relationship in every single post.

Sammy Albon: It's tricky when my, so I've just, I've just answered the question, but I think my perspective is quite a tricky one. I don't know what you think, Lucy, whether That brand is so inherently tied to you as a creator. Are you supposed to be a hashtagging ad every single post? Or is the audience clearly aligned that as Lucy Edwards, let's say for example, you have a product which we may talk about later that is [00:33:00] so tied to your brand that it's just a given that you're going to talk about it.

Sammy Albon: It's so difficult. 

Lucy Edwards: I think it's so unfair. I don't know if this is a hot take or not, but I think Every single post knowing that the algorithms, as soon as you put ad, there is going to be a slight chink in the way. 

Sammy Albon: Detrimental. 

Lucy Edwards: Yeah. 

Sammy Albon: Even anecdotally, I think we've all seen it, but platforms believe that hashtag ad doesn't impact organic performance of posts.

Sammy Albon: We've got enough, you've got enough experience and we've got enough data to show that actually chances are it will impact organic performance. 

Lucy Edwards: Yeah. I don't think it's fair. I just don't think it's fair. I think maybe if she's releasing or if we're, any of us are releasing for the first time, this is a new product in the line, fair enough.

Lucy Edwards: You know, maybe we need to put something there. Maybe it doesn't need to be ad, ad, ad everywhere. But it needs to be like, you know, own brand or we need our own hashtag. And I think there is a massive discussion about it. But I really think she's been treated unfairly. 

Sammy Albon: Do [00:34:00] you think the ASAs made an example?

Lucy Edwards: So outdated. It's and I feel like she's also been the one that's targeted and it's all of our problem. It's not just hers. And I, I feel sorry for her. I've, you know, 

Sammy Albon: I've gone through several different feelings about it where first I was like, okay, well, it's great that if they have, they're enforcing this rule that they've, they've, um, endorsed for a while, but actually the way they've gone about it doesn't feel very fair.

Sammy Albon: And actually now I've come at the other side thinking. This is not a sustainable way of influencers having their own brand, unless they create a completely separate social channel, own channels for that brand, but then you're splitting your audience and it's not going to help you as a business because it can have serious business impact.

Lucy Edwards: Yeah. 

Sammy Albon: Um. 

Lucy Edwards: And also celebrities like that also then migrate to social media. What do they do? Is it one role for them and another role for us? I don't know. 

Sammy Albon: Like when you, when you see, well on Love Island, Lucy, they put a little P in the top left or right corner, [00:35:00] which means product placement. Right. For the longest time, I was like, what's this weird p that keeps Not that I watch Love Island anymore, this is years ago.

Sammy Albon: Love it! I do watch Molly Mae. I actually I, you know, the last season I watched was, um, Amy and Curtis. Yeah. Which was like, I came here to tell you I loved you. Oh, fair play. That was a golden moment in British TV history. But, anyway, I digress. Um, my, my, my point was around the P for product placement. I had to Google what that meant.

Sammy Albon: Yeah. Whereas I feel like influencers are so scrutinized for hashtag app. So. 

Lucy Edwards: Can I just say, I didn't even know it was there. I'm so glad you brought it up. I think you knew that I probably didn't. That's why I said yeah. You knew that I knew that I didn't know. 

Sammy Albon: From a, um, from a, from a accessibility standpoint.

Lucy Edwards: Yeah. 

Sammy Albon: Should there be a different kind of disclosure? 

Lucy Edwards: Yeah. 110%. 

Sammy Albon: Question for another time. 

Lucy Edwards: Yeah, it is. 

Sammy Albon: Um, yeah, well, I say. Got a way to go. Yeah, hit us up, we'll come. Lucy's available. We're available. Our rates [00:36:00] are about grand an hour. I'll take 800, Lucy does 200. Yeah. 

Lucy Edwards: Flat 1000 together. 

Sammy Albon: Excluding VAT. And Molly has to come.

Sammy Albon: Yeah. Uh, but I do think it's an interesting one and I think we can hear more and more about Create Our Own Brands this year. That's my It's my psychic moment for you. I mean we're halfway through the year. I don't think it's very fair and I do think if you look at the ASA wall of shame as they call it, uh, which is where influencers don't follow the ASA rules, are called out.

Sammy Albon: I would say the people that are on that list are not influencers because they're ex reality TV stars or they're TV stars like Jacqueline Jossa who's from EastEnders. It's like, Most influencers like Lucy, like people that have got a brand or profile online, will follow ASA Rigs. 

Lucy Edwards: We will. 

Sammy Albon: Because it's just not worth the hassle.

Lucy Edwards: Yeah, and it's our business, it's our livelihood, why would we not? 

Sammy Albon: Exactly, exactly. You're, uh, and I'm putting words in your mouth here, but that one brand deal to you is not worth enough for you to just fray your reputation. 

Sammy Albon: [00:37:00] Out the window. 

Lucy Edwards: Yeah, I care. So brands And also I want to, I want to be within the rules, but I just, I do also want to question them when they don't 

Sammy Albon: Challenge them.

Lucy Edwards: Yeah, yeah. 

Sammy Albon: Do you ever get approached by brands asking you not to disclose your accent? 

Lucy Edwards: I haven't, but I don't know whether that's been filtered through my lovely management because we just wouldn't take something like that. 

Sammy Albon: Does that ever happen? Where brands are saying, don't use. I don't think so. Yeah.

Sammy Albon: Not that I've seen anyway. 

Lucy Edwards: Yeah. 

Sammy Albon: I think they know that you wouldn't. 

Lucy Edwards: Yeah. I agree. Yeah. But also I think it does happen because wasn't there someone who went, who flew to Dubai? There's loads of implements and trips that 

Sammy Albon: This was during COVID, wasn't it? And it wasn't disclosed that it was a Oh, who's that with?

Lucy Edwards: I don't know. But it was definitely a reality TV star. 

Sammy Albon: It was like a vitamin brand, wasn't it, or something? 

Lucy Edwards: I think so. But they, you know 

Sammy Albon: Sun tan. Tablets or something. 

Lucy Edwards: Oh, I don't know. I hope, I hope not. Cause they're so bad for you. They are. Um. We could do a whole, I could do a 

Sammy Albon: whole podcast on [00:38:00] SPF. 

Lucy Edwards: Yeah. 

Sammy Albon: I love an SPF.

Sammy Albon: We love a factor 50. 

Lucy Edwards: Love a factor 50, a 

Sammy Albon: hundred percent. 

Lucy Edwards: Oh my 

Sammy Albon: God. The house are out here Lucy. 

Lucy Edwards: I can't. You haven't been 

Sammy Albon: this young for this long without a bit of intervention. 

Lucy Edwards: Is it because we're getting late twenties, early thirties. It's like, I don't know. 

Sammy Albon: I'm definite. Right. How old do you think I am Lucy?

Lucy Edwards: I think you're 32. Okay. 

Sammy Albon: Oh, yeah, I am. Oh, 

Lucy Edwards: yeah! 

Sammy Albon: Are you? I've been like, 28, and I've been like, oh, thank you. You can't even see my face. I must sound old. 

Lucy Edwards: You do sound old. But also, I don't see 30 as old anymore. But I think, when we were younger though, we so were like, oh my god, if we get to 30, 

Sammy Albon: I'm going to have my life.

Sammy Albon: I'm going to look so old. We don't have our life. together and then like, Oh my God, I need a house. I need four kids. It's going to be like, no, I'm like, . Put food on the table, let alone we have kids. 

Lucy Edwards: But I did know. So I feel like you get into a bracket at our age. [00:39:00] That I call it 27 to 35 bracket where we all talk about SPF.

Lucy Edwards: And we all want those machines that like 

Sammy Albon: You have to put it on your neck as well. Yes, you have to. Because the neck is an extension of your face. 

Lucy Edwards: Yeah, and you look older if you have a creepy neck. 

Sammy Albon: Yeah, 100%. I don't want to attack your neck. 

Lucy Edwards: We don't want that at all. 

Sammy Albon: I could just grow a beard though. 

Lucy Edwards: Yeah, true, to be fair, you've got the hack.

Sammy Albon: Yeah, I could just hack that. Well, you never know. You can stick some on. 

Lucy Edwards: True to be fair 

Sammy Albon: it'll probably 

Lucy Edwards: look quite nice actually.

Sammy Albon: It's 2024 Lucy. 

Lucy Edwards: Exactly. Wait, is it? I 

Sammy Albon: thought, yeah, it's 2024. What year is it? 

Lucy Edwards: Wait, sorry. 

Sammy Albon: 2025? God. Back on topic. 

Lucy Edwards: Yep. 

Sammy Albon: There's been several instances of you breaking the internet, but one that I want to talk about is your wedding.

Sammy Albon: There was a lot of headlines on that. Yeah, there was. Um, I thought it was probably one of the most endearing, wholesome pieces of content I've seen. Could you, 

for 

Sammy Albon: the audience that hasn't, uh, listened to or watched your content around your wedding, can you give an explanation of what happened and how much of it did you, just from the [00:40:00]strategy mindset, how much did you plan?

Sammy Albon: Uh in terms of coverage. Okay, 

Lucy Edwards: so I had a tiktok guy shout out to Adam Because I don't want to do content on my wedding, but I so want some 

Sammy Albon: yeah 

Lucy Edwards: Um, so I sent him 10 ideas that he smashed out the park. 

Sammy Albon: So was he a content? Yeah. So we came along and produced with his 

Lucy Edwards: assistant and he just smashed it. He was just amazing.

Lucy Edwards: I would love to put his, um, stuff in the show notes if we can. I don't know. Absolutely. We can, 

Sammy Albon: um, I'm sure we can put it in the podcast description. Awesome. 

Lucy Edwards: So, yeah, I think for me it was a strategy cause I just thought I really would love to cover this, like I'm a lifestyle creator as well as a broadcaster that I need to kind of let my audience in.

Lucy Edwards: So the video. I blindfolded everyone at my wedding. Uh, my Nan was like, why did you do that? I wanted to see you. But actually I do realize why, because it was amazing. But Oli was like, 

Sammy Albon: I can't see [00:41:00] you 

Lucy Edwards: Nan, love ya. But Oli was like, I wanted to show the world that your experience is just as valid as mine.

Lucy Edwards: Cause he genuinely. Has thought that from day one, you know, I've seen, I saw him before I lost my eyesight two minutes into our relationship. 

I, you 

Lucy Edwards: know, he's only ever loved blind Lucy and he said, you know, I wanted to show the world that blind Lucy is enough, which it chokes me up even to this day because he's just a beautiful boy.

Lucy Edwards: Um, but I think 

Sammy Albon: he's outside. We sent him out. We didn't have enough room in here. That's how much we love him. 

Lucy Edwards: He's doing our to do list. 

Sammy Albon: Get me work, Bollie. He's in the L. 

Lucy Edwards: But um, bless him. But so the video, it starts. My dad's I'm like crying. I'm so glad my makeup artist was there after the ceremony cause all my life it was all off and she was laughing at me.

Lucy Edwards: Um, so my aisle was sensory. So from the beginning to the end, we smelt different floral scents. Um, but we also did 3d sound. So we got them. We got the [00:42:00] guys who do, like, a lot for the proms to come and, like, rig it up. So, it kind of crescendoed and the strings gained in, I don't know, resonance as I got to Ollie.

Lucy Edwards: So, as my dad was holding my hand, he didn't have to audio describe and we could just feel the moment. You knew when the moment was. Yeah, and then, so everyone was blindfolded. Bless my father in law in the video, he's got his blindfold upside down and he still reminds me of that to this day because there's so, there's like 20, 000 upvotes and I'm like, who's that bloke with his, anyway, bless 

him.

Lucy Edwards: Um, and I got to the end and Ollie felt my dress in exactly the same way as I felt my dress from Eleganza. Um, and I just, I really want to relive it again and again and again. It was the most, it was the best moment of my whole entire life. You got to 

Sammy Albon: make it. How you would experience the world for everyone else.

Lucy Edwards: It's, um, I just can't believe that I met I was so nervous, Sammy, like, I was thinking and overthinking that moment for years. Like, me and Ollie have been together at 10 years at that point. And I thought, [00:43:00] I feel sick, like, this is such a sighted bride moment. I was like, how am I gonna do this? Because I just Quite frankly, I was like, I don't know if I want to.

Lucy Edwards: I don't know if I want to walk down the aisle. Yeah. Um, but when I made it like that, and me and Olly decided to do that, we didn't tell anyone. I was like, right, I'm gonna walk down to the, to, there's a song in The Theory of Everything, it's called Arrival of the Birds, by the Cinematic Orchestra, and it chokes me every single time.

Lucy Edwards: I listen to it, and it's basically, In the film, it's Stephen Hawking's journey of him losing, kind of, function within his disability. And I think it's so beautiful, so poignant, and also, you know, for me, there is a love and a hate that I always, kind of, Transcend with my disability, but ultimately I do love myself and I do love the way that it's given me such clarity of thought and it's enabled me [00:44:00] to have this brand that I have and I love my blindness and I think I wanted to have that poignancy for everyone to understand that when they do listen to something and when they're in that moment they are so within themselves when they don't have that sense, that sense that you know 55 percent of all communication is non verbal you know it's so massive and it's something that we never just like sit within ourselves and think wow like we are in the moment here.

Lucy Edwards: I think it made everyone cry but I don't think there was a 

Sammy Albon: dry eye from the content, it looked as 

Lucy Edwards: though it was 

Sammy Albon: just finally seeing everyone on an equal playing field. I couldn't believe 

Lucy Edwards: it. I just, yeah. And then Ollie, bless him, so everyone took their blindfolds off and then he kind of left his on and audio described what he felt.

Lucy Edwards: Um, and then, oh my gosh, he hired. The choir from Love Actually for me. Did they actually? And they [00:45:00] came up and I was, I just burst into tears again because it's my favourite film. Yeah, so. 

Sammy Albon: It looked absolutely magical and I think, so doing my research for the episode, there were just so many headlines. Yeah.

Sammy Albon: Obviously you've got your team around you, you've got your internal team, external team. How much of the coverage was, was it? P. 

Lucy Edwards: R. I didn't have any, like, literally, it was unhinged, it was, everyone just descended, Katrina's in box. L wasn't, L wasn't our assistant, but L, honestly, she still talks about it now, doesn't she?

Lucy Edwards: She's like, oh my gosh, I don't know what happened. But she was like 

Sammy Albon: filtering all the messages. We couldn't, 

Lucy Edwards: we couldn't control it, Sam, like honestly, um, it was amazing, but yeah, I mean now I have a VR too, because I'm like, I want that again, that's my favourite. Not that we're ever getting. Um, you can always 

Sammy Albon: renew your vows in about four years.

Lucy Edwards: Do it again. Exactly. It's true. Yeah. But, um, so it was all 

Sammy Albon: completely earned. There was no push from a PR team. 

Lucy Edwards: I can't [00:46:00] believe I couldn't believe it. And the fact that the video went just from zero to a million in like pretty much an hour. Really? It's a bit insane. Yeah. So, Pat, what 

Sammy Albon: did you post on Thursday?

Sammy Albon: We 

Lucy Edwards: posted on TikTok first and it went crazy on TikTok first, but the fact that it felt like we were just posting on TikTok for the first time, what our videos were doing back then, because the algorithms changed so much and you know, people expect, I mean, I usually did expect for the, the, the videos that we post, like even now, oh the algorithms change, you know, I, I post and I reply for the first hour and you know, it doesn't do the same as when you first post and go viral, it just doesn't and every post is, you know, we have strategy meetings and it, you know, every post is different things for you as a, as a business, but I think, you know, with that, I was like, Whoa.

Sammy Albon: Yeah. 

Lucy Edwards: Um, well, man, 

Sammy Albon: every time. Yeah. Yeah. 

Lucy Edwards: It was insane. Um, I don't really know [00:47:00] how to even. Kind of put it into words even now and it's not even, you know, like just a year later. So yeah, 

Sammy Albon: I mean, with your permission, I think it'd be nice to overlay. So this podcast is also a video podcast as well. So people want to watch and listen.

Sammy Albon: So with your permission, we could overlay some clips just as we're talking to the show, but we'll chat about that separately. Yeah. Um, I think you, you, you touched on the platforms there. Um, and. See, the algorithm is unpredictable. Um, when you work with brands, do they let you know, or agencies rather, do they let you know what your measures of success are?

Sammy Albon: So when we brief influencers and hopefully you've seen it as well, we'll say measures of success are using impressions, um, or audiences clicking through to a product. 

Yeah. 

Sammy Albon: How transparent are brands or agencies with you about what they want your content to achieve? 

Lucy Edwards: Very, I think it's really ROI and then there's also You know, brand recognition through me doing DNI and [00:48:00] disability.

Lucy Edwards: So there's definitely two strands of our business, which I love because there's different metrics for different content and within our, you know, you know, scope. And I think I really love people being at front, but there's. I would never do a campaign where they say, you know, we're going to pay you if you get x amount of views.

Lucy Edwards: I just don't think that's fair. Um, it's not in our control. So by, I think sometimes ROI as well, when you're doing. just a review on link clicks. Um, 

Sammy Albon: but 

Lucy Edwards: you can't control 

Sammy Albon: your journey. You 

Lucy Edwards: can get an 

Sammy Albon: audience to click a link, whether or not they actually then believe in the product and want to buy it is a completely different matter.

Sammy Albon: So 

Lucy Edwards: that's what I totally, I agree with you. I think link clicks fabulous. I think past that I I'm not, you've done your job, you know? Yeah. Um, and I don't know, it's, it's very, it's a complicated [00:49:00] topic and one that, uh, I would love to unpack even more, but I think for me, maybe another podcast. Yeah, maybe we'll get you back for another one.

Lucy Edwards: But I think, yeah, um, it's important to have those measures of success. I'm so glad that you guys are so upfront with it. Um, because we need something within our content, but just to know that, you know, if the campaign does flop and you don't get the link clicks that you desire, maybe it's something that, you know, you haven't had the right strategy with that creator.

Lucy Edwards: It's not just. on the creator. It's not just the creator's fault. Um, so, yeah, I think that that's just a good flag really. Yeah. 

Sammy Albon: My final question to you, um, unless there's anything else you want to discuss Lucy, is what piece of advice would you either give your younger self or creators who are up and coming now?

Lucy Edwards: Wow. Um, big 

Sammy Albon: question. 

Lucy Edwards: Yeah. I think just be kind to yourself in, in, in a way. You know, I was [00:50:00] so, I was so hard on myself in those early days and I think, yeah, there's, there's, there's one side of you that does want to do well and be conscientious, but I think you can take that too far. Um, knowing who's right to work with as well, like people's, the people that you surround yourself with, your immediate team is so, so super important for your mental health.

Lucy Edwards: Um, understanding that you do need to carve out time for holidays. Like I. You know, no one's gone anywhere on my platforms. Like I've been able to take weekends off for the past six months. Like no, you know, the world has not ended. People have not left me. Like I'm still got a business. Um, and being a freelancer, you know, sometimes you do think, Oh my gosh, when's the next job?

Lucy Edwards: And you worry about that. And it's a, it's a natural worry and it's a valid worry. But it's one that when you are stable within your industry, you need to take your foot off the gas and make sure that you can trust in your team and your [00:51:00] talent agency. Know that they've got it covered as well. 

Sammy Albon: Definitely, definitely.

Sammy Albon: And that's when you can do your best work, when you're rested. Yeah, 

Lucy Edwards: exactly. 

Sammy Albon: Lucy, thank you so much for joining us today for this episode. I've been looking forward to this one. Molly didn't contribute quite as much as I would have hoped. She didn't shout as much as 

Lucy Edwards: we thought. We needed bark smalls. She's actually 

Sammy Albon: dreaming right now.

Sammy Albon: Bless her. She's chasing something in her sleep and her mouth is moving. Her contribution was invaluable. Yeah, it was. She got you here. She did. But no, absolutely thrilled to have you on this episode. If people want to keep up to date with what you're doing, if you've got anything exciting coming up that you're allowed to say.

Sammy Albon: Well, I'm 

Lucy Edwards: not allowed to say certain things. Can 

Sammy Albon: you turn me away from the camera later? 

Lucy Edwards: Yes, I can. I think the one thing that I can say is I'm releasing a children's book. Are you? Super excited. Can you give us 

Sammy Albon: any details of, are we talking Tracy Beaker? We're 

Lucy Edwards: talking Ella Jones. Okay. Versus the sons, uh, the Hang on, it's, it's been 

Sammy Albon: Retargeted.

Sammy Albon: Yeah, 

Lucy Edwards: yeah, hang on. Do it again. Ella [00:52:00] Jo I'm gonna do it again. Ella Jones versus the Sun Stealer. 

Sammy Albon: So it's a, it's a, it's a fiction? Yeah. Amazing. And she's 

Lucy Edwards: a 12 year old, she's just lost her eyesight. Um, and she, she's basically saving the world one little bit at a time. From darkness, yeah. With her guide dog Maisy.

Lucy Edwards: Miss Maisy. Miss Maisy. 

Sammy Albon: Does, uh, did you say her name's Ella? 

Lucy Edwards: Yeah. 

Sammy Albon: Does she happen to have red hair? 

Lucy Edwards: Yeah. 

Sammy Albon: I can see the inspo. Yeah, the inspo. Does she have excellent taste in dresses as well? 

Lucy Edwards: Oh, 

Sammy Albon: bless you. mate. 

Lucy Edwards: But yeah, no, she's very funky. She's got a sister called Poppy. Best friend called Finn who is a history nerd, which I love.

Lucy Edwards: It's just amazing. How long's 

Sammy Albon: this project been in the making then? A book's not a small feat. 

Lucy Edwards: It's not, but I think it's We've, I've had this idea in the back of my mind for probably like two, three years. And me and Ollie have been talking about it. Yeah. But we I've worked with a coauthor as well called Katie.

Lucy Edwards: She is so lush. Like I just, I love her and I just think she's amazing. And I don't think [00:53:00] without her and then my editor, Lauren, it would have been, yeah. It's amazing. Yeah. 

Sammy Albon: Have we got dates? Have we got, is there a movie in the making? So 

Lucy Edwards: we're announcing at the, End of June, now. Yeah, she's nodding. Damn it, we're not getting the exclusive, this is going out in like August or September.

Lucy Edwards: And um, I really want it to be a film. That is. I would love it to be a film. Well, absolutely excited for that. Can we 

Sammy Albon: get a signed copy for the August? Of course. And one for me. 

Lucy Edwards: Yeah, definitely. And Miss Moles 4. Yeah, absolutely. Because, you know, based on Miss Maisie. And she's gonna, 

Sammy Albon: she's gonna be in Shrine Forever in a wonderful bestseller, I'm sure.

Lucy Edwards: Oh, fingers crossed. Yeah. I mean, 

Sammy Albon: is there anything else coming? 

Lucy Edwards: Um, uh, yeah, I'm not allowed to say anymore. Ella's 

Sammy Albon: like, 

Lucy Edwards: cut! 

Sammy Albon: Cut! But that's safe to say, you are busy. Yeah. You're booked and blessed. 

Lucy Edwards: Yeah. You've got a lot 

Sammy Albon: coming up. There's a, there's 

Lucy Edwards: a cool project at the end of July, that's all I'm gonna say, that's massive.

Lucy Edwards: And I'm so super excited about it. 

Sammy Albon: Oh you can't, you can't say this! Okay, we'll take this offline. 

Lucy Edwards: Yeah. 

Sammy Albon: [00:54:00] But no, big thank you for joining us today Lucy. It's been an absolute pleasure having you. People find you at Lucy Edwards on every platform. Yeah, other than 

Lucy Edwards: slightly different on Insta, which at least it was official because they didn't give me their handle.

Lucy Edwards: There we 

Sammy Albon: go. You Instagram. 

Lucy Edwards: Come on Insta! 

Sammy Albon: Let's fire them an email. I know some people. I don't. But no, absolutely love having you. Thank you so much for joining us for today's episode. I've been absolutely thrilled to be joined by Lucy. Who's perhaps the most hardworking, um, almost as funny as me content creator, uh, that has joined us for the podcast.

Sammy Albon: Please make sure you give us a review where you listen. And if you're watching on YouTube, please make sure you subscribe and leave us a comment. And hopefully we'll have Lucy back in the future to review the book and the next big project that you've got coming up. my love. Thanks for having me. very much.

Sammy Albon: Thanks for listening.