How YouTube Creators Are Redefining Brand Partnerships with Nisha Mathews (Google Creative Works) | What They Said: The Influencer Marketing Podcast | Ep 17

This month on What They Said: The Influencer Marketing Podcast, host Sammy Albon sits down with Nisha Mathews, Creative Business Lead at Google Creative Works, to explore how YouTube creators are transforming the future of brand partnerships.

From authenticity to AI, discover how brands and creators can build meaningful, lasting connections on YouTube – and what strategies actually cut through.

With years of experience shaping marketing strategies at Omnicom and Wavemaker before joining Google, Nisha brings a unique perspective on the evolving world of creator marketing.

In this episode, Nisha shares insights on:

• Why ads that don’t feel like ads win attention
• How YouTube Shorts is reshaping discovery
• Why micro-influencers are a secret weapon for engagement
• Strategies to integrate Shorts + long-form video into a seamless brand story

Our podcast is available on all streaming platforms;

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Transcript

[00:00:00] Hello and welcome back to the What They Said Influencer Marketing podcast, the one that you've been waiting diligently for. I am sure. Um, I am back from Cannes. I actually dunno when this is going out, this episode. So, um, what you've missed is we went to, can, we recorded some episodes. We're keeping the caliber of GE, caliber of guests exceedingly high.

Uh, and I'm really excited for today's guest. But before I introduce her, uh, who's waiting very patiently in the wings, um, please make sure you review this podcast and I would ask you to leave a very positive review because if you don't. I will find you. No, I won't find you. I, I'm not paid enough to invest time outside of ours to, uh, hunt you down.

But, uh, it means a lot and we've really enjoyed this season and I think we're gonna keep rolling with it. Um, so please, please do subscribe. Like it, do all the things, uh, and will invade your ear holes every week. Without further ado though, I would like to introduce a brilliant guest [00:01:00] today, niche Matthews from Google Creative Works.

Welcome, niche. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks. Are you you excited to be here? Yeah, I am. It's actually my first podcast, so, um, yeah, I'm super excited and I feel quite lucky to introduce you to the world of podcasting. Yeah, I'm excited for you to do that too. Like, yeah, it's, um, it's something I've always wanted to do and obviously just.

I love talking about the platform, love talking about what we do. So yeah. Brilliant way to be able to talk about it. Yeah. Perfect. And also niche. Could you tell us a little bit about what your role is and what you do? Yeah, absolutely. So, um, my role, I'm a creative business lead, um, in the Creative Works team.

Um. At, at Google, but specifically work on YouTube. Um, and I guess, I guess my role is to just make ads on the platform or help clients create the best ads they can, that people actually wanna watch, like make them awesome, um, make them fit for the platform, um, and make sure they're kind of the most creatively effective as they creative effectiveness increase creative effectiveness, I guess, on the platform.

Mm. Perfect. Um, [00:02:00] I absolutely love YouTube. Good. Um, I think it is. I'm not just saying that. Good. Good start. Good start. It is a, it is a brilliant start, but I love YouTube and I think long form content is and always will be, uh, where my passion is. Yeah. And it feels like YouTube over the years has been such a, um, enabler and empower of creators and it's really exciting to see this next evolution of how Google is continuing to lean into creators, support what effectively small businesses Yeah.

Continue to be at the heart of. Really awesome ads like you just said. Yeah. Um, so cheers to that. Yeah. Cheers. We've got our littles Ocean bottle. Love this. Not sponsored, um, iced coffees because it's very hot in the studio, so we're gonna try and power through this. Yeah. Um, but, but thank you for joining Niche.

I feel like we've got a lot to chat about. Um, and we're gonna dive into everything from strategic thinking. Yeah. Uh, right up to creative. And also we're gonna touch on YouTube shorts, uh, which has been around now for about four or five years. Mm-hmm. And is doing. Big numbers, which I think goes under the radar of a lot of people.[00:03:00]

Um, and where Creative works comes into it is how brands. It's helping brands sort of connect and leverage creators and the platform Yeah. Really effectively. Yeah. Nish, could you give us a high level view of how YouTube supports brands or content creators and how that's evolved, um, and how your role fits into that picture?

Yeah. Um, so, so YouTube's obviously it is the home of creators, so. Um, we've always supported creators, um, in the best way that we can. So by providing them with kind of all the help and the access to the platform, and of course tools as well, um, and creators love being on the platform, as you said, yourself, um, as a creator, you know, it is one of their kind of favorite platforms to kind of, especially to produce long form content.

Um, so the support is there from a kind of brand, uh, from a, sorry, partnership's point of view. From a brand point of view, we've got. Such an array of different ways to get involved with creators on the platform. So you've got all the way from, um, what we do, uh, from an ads perspective, which is creator [00:04:00] takeovers.

So you can have like a hundred percent share of voice road blocker creator's channel. Um, which works so well in such an effective way to be part of a creator space and kind of their tap into their audience. Um, we've got, um, partnership ads, which is taking kind of creators organic content that mentions the brand or that has the brand affiliation in it, and then boosting that on the platform all the way to, um, custom creator ads, which is working with a brand, um, an agency if they're involved, plus the creator.

To really build that kind of custom creative that's fit for the platform, fit for the audience, that kind of marries that kind of what the creator wants to do, plus what the brand wants to do and what the audience wanna see. You've got that kind of sweet spot. Mm-hmm. Um, those are the ads that make me really, really excited because I think they're just so powerful, um, in terms of the authenticity.

One of the things that I love about my job is creating ads [00:05:00] that don't feel like ads. Mm. And I think those are the most effective ones that work on the platform. That's secret sauce. Yeah. I think it's really interesting to hear you touch on those points because from an agency perspective Yeah. Um, and having been in the space 12 years, yourself being in a long time, there's been a lot of education around how to effectively work with content creators.

Yeah. Influencers, YouTubers, which, whichever hat fits. Yeah. Um, and then how can we. Do that awesome content that is really creative cuts through and dries performance. Yeah. And I think often people think they're not mutually exclusive. They can't do all of these things at once. When actually, like you said, an ad that doesn't feel like an ad, it feels additive to their audience.

And the content is authentic. Yes. And I know it is 2025, we're still, we're still mentioning the word authentic. I know. And actually it can, the word was, let's be authentic. I'm like, really? Yeah. We're still doing this. Yeah. Um. I think it's really important. 'cause as you know, audiences are far more discerning than they've ever been.

Mm-hmm. So if we are putting really clunky partnerships forward, [00:06:00] it will never work. Yeah. And it undermines what we're trying to achieve. So I think it's really refreshing to hear platform side. Yeah. Your backing the same approach as Yeah. A hundred percent agencies. Because I think over the years we've seen the likes of meta and, and other platforms.

You could almost say treating influencers with contempt in terms of not keeping them up to date with platform developments. Yeah, the roadmaps, one minute it's reels. One minute. It's one minute. It's static posts and carousels. YouTube's always been very clear. I remember back in the day when the subscription feed changed and it went to an algorithm based piece.

Um. Which has now become obviously, um, defacto in terms of how people browse social. Yeah. So I think, um, YouTube's always been exciting and I think to see the influencers continue to be support by platform that I think has paid billions to influencers and obviously media pay, media outlets over the past few years.

Yeah. Everyone harps on about the TikTok Creator Fund. Yes. Which pales in comparison to what YouTube. Pay creators. Yeah. Which does mean they can be more picky about the brands they partner with. Right. So that gives you a lot [00:07:00] more, um, scope to do more interesting stuff. Yeah. And I think, I mean, I would say yes, we, they can be picky, but I think at the same time I want, I, I wanna believe that actually what we do on the platform is for all brands at any stage of what they're trying to do.

And I don't think, and I think that's the thing with where we're at with creators, is it should be kind of democratized. For brands and for creators in terms of how they get involved. And I think it just should be for anyone who can kind of, yeah, do that. But obviously from a. Kind of investment perspective and an ads perspective.

It does, it takes time. It takes kind of dedication to like create the right, the right thing. Um, but yeah, definitely the important thing is choosing the right creator for the right brand and making sure that there's gotta be another word for authenticity, right? I just wanna say like credible. Credible, yeah.

Like building, building that connection and making sure that. They are trusted partners. I think that's what it is. I [00:08:00] think it's making sure brands aren't picking creators for the sake of picking a creator that follows just a trend at the time. Mm. It's like, is that creator right for you? And I think creators think the same.

Right? Is that brand right for me? Yes. And they should be able to say, actually, I. Don't want to work with that brand and or I, it's not, you know, don't do it just for the money. You, you are doing it because you wanna build that trusted reputation together. Um, and we're definitely part of that process and making sure that those connections between brands and creators are, um, credible and trusted.

Um, 'cause you want longevity. Mm-hmm. You it, you don't want it to just be a one off thing. Once you build those partnerships and relationships between brands and creators. You want to extend those and you wanna make sure that that lives, um, and lives on and it's not just a one-off. And a lot of the time we do find that, so some of the campaigns that we've worked on, we found that when we have introduced creators and brands together to, to do either a partner, something partnership from an organic perspective, or even paid.

[00:09:00] Actually they've really loved working with the brand and vice versa. And the brands love working with them and they've kind of kept them on, it lives on par, it lives on, and also they've kind of gone back to that creator and said, we loved what we've, we did with that creator, we'd love to do more. Mm-hmm.

Um, and that's amazing to hear, right? When you think, gosh, you're going back and doing more and you're giving more back to that creator and, and they love it and the brand loves it and yeah, it's brilliant. Mm-hmm. Excuse me, I, um, totally agree with those points. I think it's really interesting still that we've kind of gone full circle.

Yeah. Where I think 2020 to 20, 22, 23, it was, let's be data driven. It has to be about audience demographics. Yeah. And we, and resonance. But we kind of forgot. And you touched on yourself, that human connection. Yeah. And it's, I always say influence marketing's kind of like an art, not a science. Yeah. Yes. We need that datadriven, we need the insight, the cultural tensions, et cetera.

Yeah. But it is built on the shoulders of inherently creative people Yes. That have maybe stumbled into being a content creator. I know I did Back in the day, I had no idea about having an accountant and how to deal, how to [00:10:00] navigate a branded partnership. Yeah. But even now, and I think it speaks to, um, our piece around authenticity.

The reason we have to keep banging this drum is because we keep seeing examples of it not done well. Um, but what I love about YouTube's position in that is. Oftentimes when you see a breakdown of top social media platforms for audiences, YouTube's not in the mix 'cause it's not seen as a community platform or a social platform.

Um, for me, in my view, and I think this is probably something you, you'll, you'll, um, agree to. Putting words in your mouth. Yeah. Is that YouTube's always been the home of building the communities and then you disseminate that across other platforms. Yeah, certainly that was best practice for influencers back in the day.

You see it even now with hero examples like Logan Paul and KSI, but even down to micro influencers that consolidate their audience on YouTube. Yeah. And then take it elsewhere. Yeah. And are probably, are, are probably hazard a guess that the most engaged creators on TikTok on other platforms either have a YouTube channel or are YouTube creators first and foremost.

Um, so. I guess my next question is that how do you explain to, um, brands that [00:11:00] come saying, oh, YouTube, everyone watches it on their TV now. Mm-hmm. How do you help brands understand that YouTube. Is more than just a video platform, it's that community hub. Is that a challenge? Yeah, it can be. Um, as you said, we're not always necessarily seen, so we've spent a long time YouTube, I say YouTube is many things, right.

So you are right. It it's connected tv. It's number one podcast platform as well. Like it's huge from a podcast perspective, but it's also social. Mm-hmm. Um, and I think. To our detriment. Sometimes it's quite hard to talk about all those things. Um, so you have to kind of, when you talk about it, you talk about it in silo Slightly.

Yeah. So, um, it has been, we've spent a long time talking about the fact that YouTube is part of an AV platform, which absolutely is. Like the amount of people that watch Connected tv. Um, YouTube on Connected TV is grown and it's huge. Um, isn't it your biggest segment's? It's now our biggest segment. Yeah, exactly.

Which is huge. Which is massive. It's massive when you think about it. How you [00:12:00] show up, I guess, in a living room versus being mobile first. Yeah. Has been a real transformation. Yeah, absolutely. It's been a huge transformation and what we're really, what we're seeing, which is really interesting now, is that a lot more people are watching shorts on connected tv.

Really? Which actually blows my mind. So they're actively choosing to watch shorts, actively choosing to watch shorts on connected tv. Interesting. You, you wouldn't get with other platforms? No. So it's so different because you, and I think the way we talk about YouTube as going beyond video, just video, um, and just kind of connected TV is that it is this kind of ecosystem that lives on in long form, kind of short form, social connected tv, you know, audio.

Like it's, it does all of it. Yeah. Um, and so I think trying to kind of talk about it in the more kind of creator led social space. It is happening. We're kind of making that progress, but it is just about changing perceptions and about kind of really educating clients and agencies about actually what is the role of, of [00:13:00] YouTube from a social perspective.

Know, and, and as you know, you work outside as well. It's um, it that it's kind of seen, sometimes social is seen as quite siloed mm-hmm. To the rest of the media plan. So it kind of, yeah. It's just trying to have that conversation with the right people. But yeah, we're getting, we're getting there. Definitely getting there, I think.

Um, and, and just touching on Schultz and how that plays into the mix. Yeah. 'cause I think it can be difficult for brands to understand how they can work in a holistic way across Schutz and long form. Yeah. I mean, Schutz was the biggest product launch since live Yes. On, on YouTube. Yeah. How is s Shortz performing in, I mean, I'm not expecting you to reel off some numbers.

Yeah. But I'm sure internally you see them all the time. Yeah. Externally, we know that actually I think there's like 10 billion plays a day. Yeah. So I think we say, yeah. So I think the official number is two, 2 billion views a day. Mm-hmm. Um, which is huge. Absolutely phenomenal. But, um, yeah. But yeah, it's, the amount of people on shorts is growing.

Um, like. By day. Um, and what's really interesting actually, and I think a lot of people don't realize is the [00:14:00] kind of reach on shorts versus other platforms. So I think it's something like 42% of people on shorts aren't on TikTok. So shorts engages a completely unique audience. Exactly. That's exactly it. So, and I don't think many people know that.

No, and I think when you speak to clients, actually they're quite shocked by that because they, I think the assumption is that everyone's on TikTok. So I, I, I believe YouTube reaches more people than Facebook. Yes. In itself. Yeah. It's the second biggest search engine in the world. Yeah. Yeah. Launching Schultz on a.

Platform of that that established Yeah. Level. Huge. Yeah. It's gonna be huge. Huge, phenomenal. Yeah. It's gonna, it reaches everyone. Exactly. And not just that, it doesn't, it's not a silo in its, it doesn't live on, its on its own. Does it? It feeds into the short form, leads into the long form, and, and it kind of, it, it lives, like I said, in that sort of ecosystem.

So it's really unique in that sense. Yeah. In that it gives you so much more, and the amount of time that people spend on the platform as a whole is. Is, is huge. So you are kind of giving people a different way to kind of story [00:15:00] tell about your brand. Mm. Um, and different ways to kind of put a, you know, work with creators as well.

And I think for those that aren't aware, if, if you've been living under a rock for the past four to five years. Creators have their typical Yeah. Channel, yeah. Quotation marks. You can't see those if you're listening, but they also have s shorts as part of their main channel. Yeah. But we've also seen creators launch completely separate YouTube yess shorts channels as well.

Yes. Yeah. Have you seen, or have you got an example of an amazing branded piece of S shorts content that maybe Work Creative Works has worked on recently? If you can mention it. I'm not sure if you're allowed. Um, let me have a think. Yeah, I've, it's not, um. So one thing is we always try not, we try not to do, just do shorts only, just 'cause we, so it's part of a mix.

It's always part of an ecosystem because it's part of a mix. Because the more variety you have, the more effective your ad's gonna be. So we always say, if you're gonna create for the platform, create multiple assets. Um. And it always will perform. Um, I'll kind of go back to [00:16:00] kind of something recent we've done, um, which ha has really surprised me in terms of how well it's done and it's, um, Experian.

Mm-hmm. I'm sure they won't might be talking about it 'cause it's it's live. Yeah. Um, but they did some stuff with Nella Rose. Um, I dunno if anyone's seen it, but I think it's interesting because finance is. Is an interesting category, right? It's quite a low interest category. Quite a boring topic. Yeah. I don't think people don't wanna talk about it.

It's a bit of a taboo. Um, quite a low consideration vertical. It's a low consideration. Experian app is talking about credit scoring, so actually there's, there's a lot of shame in that sometimes as well. Um, and they were really trying to talk to kind of a younger demographic and, um, we kind of spoke to 'em about kind of doing race rides and, you know, we worked with kind of Nella clo burrows.

Mm-hmm. Um, and. Gosh, they just did such a fantastic job and, and it, they, you know, it's done really, really well. And, and I think that's, in a way it hasn't sh it hasn't, it hasn't shot me. 'cause when you, when you see the ads, you think, gosh, these are so good. They're so unique and [00:17:00] authentic and, and really right for the platform and really emphasizes, kind of takes on the kind of brand DNA as well.

Mm-hmm. Um, but. Actually, it surprised me 'cause I was like, oh gosh, people, people are engaged even though it is a financial product. Mm. Um, and people are interested. And when you look at the kind of interest categories on YouTube, you know, finance does come up a lot and there's a lot of kind of financial, uh, creators, um, on there that talk about investing, et cetera.

And so actually it is, it isn't that surprising that it has done that well, but I think it kind of, it, it really pushes on the point that, you know, it's important to. Not only take on kind of who the, the creator is and take on their tone of voice, but lean into kind of formats that your audience are familiar with.

Yeah. And familiar. Familiar. Like Ella's one was so Nella. Mm-hmm. You know, and you just think, gosh, if she had done it any other way, it wouldn't have worked. But you have to lean in, you have to trust the creator. Mm-hmm. That they're gonna do the job for your brand. And yes, the brand should have a say, [00:18:00] but I think just having that.

Real relationship and collaborative approach is, is super important. So yeah, that, that for me, that was kind of one of the standout ones recently that we've done. It's really, I think it's, so as an agency we've worked with quite a few financial services plans. Yeah. Yeah. With that, I'm sure you've had fun navigating those whole sort of compliance frameworks.

Mm-hmm. Where, um. It's a sensitive topic. Yeah. There's a lot of red tape to, to go around. Yes. What we've seen is with the financial services brands, akin to what you've just mentioned is actually they've never shown up in this way before. Yeah. Or they've tried. Yeah. But leveraging influencers and creators means they can use their tone of voice, um, attach their brand to it and actually explore spaces.

Yeah. They haven't been able to before. Yes. So I think that's really interesting to hear Experian, which Yeah. We all know we should be aware of our credit score. We should be, uh, yeah, a hundred percent. Making all the right financial decisions don't make enough. Yeah. But it's, it's, it's quite a boring topic.

Yeah. But working with creators, that makes it relatable. Yeah. It makes it accessible particularly to demographics that maybe haven't had the same financial literacy and [00:19:00] opportunities to learn around it. Um, and I think that that's the sweet spot 'cause people are using YouTube to understand. Everything from DIY.

Yeah. Right up to asmr. Yeah. But also to learn how to better themselves as well. Yeah. That's exactly it. And it gives them an opportunity. Like I said, it's the the second biggest search engine. Yeah. And people are working out how do I improve my credit score? Yeah. Credit score. So Experian being attached to content like that Yeah.

Is a no brainer. Yeah. A hundred percent. Brilliant. I'm pleased that, I'm pleased That's doing so well. And I think my next question was about YouTube being a cornerstone Yeah. Of digital culture for years. Yeah. Uh, how do you keep the brand presence evolving and relevant across social and own channels? So if your YouTube is the, is the core of your strategy.

Yeah, there's a lot of trends all the time. Yeah. Do you find it hard to keep up? Yeah. I think one of the things we, so there are a lot of trends all the time, and I think. Some, a trap that we tend to, or clients and agencies tend to fall into is kind of, that is kind of sort of one moment trends. Mm-hmm.

Like they just kind of happen. Like what are the, what is the trend that's on your [00:20:00] platform right now? And I think my answer's always, we have. We kind of, we firstly, we're sort of the home of a lot of the trends that already exist. So when people kind of say, oh, we wanna do something like book talk, I'm like, wait book YouTube happened first guys.

Yeah. Like it existed on YouTube first. First study tube, then Book tube. Yeah. Then book. Yeah, like it all happened on YouTube first. Like all those kind of get ready with me. All those kind of formats that. Now other platforms lean into it. Started on YouTube. Think that could be your slogan. YouTube did it first.

Yeah. YouTube did it first, right? I think it, but it did we, yeah, we did straight from the Get Ready with me that were like 15 minute long videos. Yeah. Now they're sort of bite-sized tr like transition videos on TikTok. Yeah, absolutely. Challenge videos, challenge all, yeah, all of those. They kind of lived on the plat on our platform first, but, and I think that's.

And the point is, I think we, we like to follow trends and we, you should absolutely lean into the right trends for your audience that you see and the right format. Mm-hmm. But I, I, I think we try to avoid just going for the kind of on [00:21:00] the thing that is trendy now, um, because. That kind of lives in the moment.

We want longevity. Right. Um, and so I think we'd always advocate for that over Yeah. Just like a trend that lives for a week or something. Cheers. Agree to that. I think the amount of conversations I've had where it's saying, oh, I can't think of a single trend off the top of my head right now, say it's a sum challenge.

Well, we've gotta go live with something this week. Mm. So hang on. You want us to hijack this trend that is gonna live for about seven days? Yeah. Attach influencers to it, contract them, negotiate, pay them. Within the next four. Yeah. And it's like, actually let's think beyond the moment. Yeah. And what I love about YouTube, um, is that discoverability.

Yes. We, everyone's saying that TikTok is the home of discoverable content. Yeah. Back to my previous comment about YouTube in a search engine. Yeah. Is that content that brands partner with on YouTube can stay relevant not just for five days, for weeks, months, years after. Yeah. Um, and I think that's the missed opportunity and I'm so pleased and I, I dunno if you are seeing this right now.[00:22:00]

I would say that a big focus for what I have, lots of our clients has been that short form content over the past. Yeah. Two or three years. Yeah. We now know that tiktoks now focusing on up to 10 minute videos and things like that. Yeah. Whereas YouTube, I actually dunno if there's a limit for the amount of the length of video you can upload to YouTube you on 24 hours.

I mean, I saw, I saw um, I think, uh, a branded, uh, version. I saw, uh, app when Apple released all their severance stuff for season two. They did an eight hour, um, kind of work with me. Yeah. Video, which was very clever. Um, but have you seen Severance? I have. I haven't watched Severance. It's on my list. Okay, okay.

Right. Okay. Um, so yeah, if it's obviously, you know, the, in the workplace, so they've, um, they did an eight hour Yeah. Video and I thought, gosh, that's amazing. Eight hours. Eight hours. Yeah. Eight hours. And e even like kind of brand, um, partnering with brands like, um, sorry, creators like, like lo-fi girl. And Nissan, I was about to mention Larry Standard partnership.

Yeah. Which [00:23:00] was a ride with me, um, one for their car and it did so well. Mm-hmm. And, you know, those kind of things there, there isn't really a limit. And I think, and I think that's what's amazing about it, is that you can produce all these different lengths and types and style tell your brand story different style Yeah.

In, in so many different ways. And I love what made me laugh this year. Can, uh, was how I was saying long form is like, like it's a new thing. Yeah. And it's like, no, actually I think attention spans, we're moving from, let's make it uns, scrollable. Yeah. We wanna make sure we stop on Yeah. A three second hook.

Yeah. To actually, um, Apple's just done a great ad with Stormy that they're running across YouTube at the moment. Yeah. Um. Which in my mind doesn't follow the best practice of advertising at all. Yeah. It's just him talking about how he's not his name, he's his font. His name on the lineup is, is small. Yeah.

And it then it's his music video or shot on iPhone. Yeah. I was hooked. Yeah. I was like, this is absolutely fascinating. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so I think where our attention spans are increasing, we're recovering [00:24:00] Yeah. From post, yeah. Post COVID world of recovering from that short, snackable content. Yeah. There is a space for it.

And I think YouTube of course, obviously is Yeah. Is testament, there's a space for it. But like you said, and I like the wording of that ecosystem that actually mm-hmm. We can discover new things on short form and then dive into more detail on long form. Yeah. Or vice versa, you know? Exactly. We can then engage with the community on short form.

'cause we've watched a long form video, a music video or something on YouTube. Yeah. So working inside creative works. Yes. You must have a lot of intel, a lot of inside goss of what's in the heart, what's not. Um, what's the most interesting things you've learned from creators themselves and they've come to speak to you about best practice.

Yeah. And maybe that surprised you. Yeah. Actually I think the biggest thing, and it shouldn't have been a surprise to me, but it's um. They know what they're doing. Surprise. So would be surprise. Yeah. They know what they're doing. Like I think when you speak to them about best practice, they get it right?

Mm-hmm. When we talk about, um, kind of building for attention, um, making sure you kind of talk about everything in the [00:25:00] first six seconds before skip, like they, they get it right and call to action all of those things. So, and I think it's just making sure that. That they, and, and it's kind of building on what they know also works for their audience.

Um, so a lot of 'em are very confident about what that looks like for their audience. They're very passionate about making sure the content they create is. Is right? Mm-hmm. And then they're not alienating the people that do watch them, even though, by the way that this is in a paid ad format. So it goes out to everyone, not necessarily just their audience, but, but that chemistry works, isn't it?

That chemistry works and I think they want to remain, uh, credible. Mm-hmm. Um, so yeah, that's, that's always been great to hear actually. Um, I think the other thing that working with creators, um, that I've learned over time is the importance of having a mix of creators that, I think you mentioned it before.

Not just going after the kind of top tier macro like celeb, like creators. Right? I mean, we all love Amelia. Like she's brilliant, but she's not the only one that we can [00:26:00] work with. Yeah. There's a, you know, you can work with her plus a few others. Mm-hmm. And actually, what we found in working with the kind of smaller micro creators is that from an engagement and conversion perspective, so if we talk about it from a.

Ads perspective and, and, and kind of what clients actually want the people to do. Like go and buy that thing or go and click on that thing. Take an action. Take an action. Um, actually the micro creators, they are very effective for those things. So I, we always say have a mix of creators. Yeah. And, and so that's been, for me, a really surprising thing is actually talking to kind of those smaller creators, um, who.

Yes, there are small, but have a very engaged community. Mm-hmm. Um, and can seemingly be more authentic. Incredible. When they talk about something. 'cause they look live and sound like Exactly. The people that gonna take action. Exactly. Yeah. Totally. I mean, we advocate for a similar approach where is brilliant to have, you know, these tier one, these top talent, your Amelia de Oldenberg, [00:27:00]your ksi, et cetera.

Of course they come with a price tag. Yes. Um, which is often surprising for some reason, um, to some brands. But then that real sweet spot, and I think we touched on this earlier around, um, sort of mid, mid-tier down to micro that Yeah. They look live and sound like the people that are gonna be influenced to take an action.

Yes. Yeah. If we're looking at this new, beyond the funnel, but this advocacy loop, this how we're driving loyalty. Yeah. That mid-tier seems to be the one that is actually connecting with people in that way. Yes. Perhaps they still have a part-time job. Yeah. Or they're working full-time and they hate content on the side.

Yeah. They're a chef and they live stream. You know, there's people that have more strings to their bow. Yeah. That seem, um, relatable. Yes. But that's not to say that the big name talent, like who Chicken shop date. Yeah, of course. That credibility Absolutely. And awareness from partnership, um, works. Yeah. But to your point, if we're looking at that lower funnel metric Yeah.

And how we're driving beyond just awareness and impressions. Yeah. Certainly when we tested sort of micro influencer campaigns on shorts or on TikTok for example, [00:28:00] the cut through is much more effective. Yeah. Often actually, and you've probably seen this, we could actually speak about this at length. Yeah.

One point I was really interested to get into is how you are seeing creator led brand assets perform. Yes. Yeah. Versus typical MSA brand owned assets. Yeah. That have been produced to a higher quality. I'm sure you've got a lot of AB testing results there that's demonstrate that having someone that Quite personable Yeah.

Speaks like a normal person. Yeah. Breaks the full fall. Converts better than, yeah, they do. Um, so we kind of look at it through the funnel, right? In terms of brand favorability, consideration, um, et cetera. So we do find that, yes. Uh. Like creator made ads, um, do very well. So if they're actually making the content themselves Yeah.

Not being shot by a production team. Exactly. If they're making the content themselves, I mean, sometimes creators will bring their own production team, right? Yeah, of course. But yeah, they are creator made ads in essence. But what we find what's really, really well is when you do your brand ad with a creator ad mm-hmm.

When you have both of [00:29:00] them together, that just Yeah. You are so running simultaneously. Exactly. When you target the same audience. Yeah, exactly. They, they, that works really well because. It's like I was saying, it's, you are kind of adding to that ecosystem of assets. Mm-hmm. So you are telling your brand story in lots of different ways.

Um, and we always kind of say, look, build, build assets for your objective. Mm-hmm. Right? So if your objective is awareness. Build it this way. You can put your brand assets in. Creator ads can do that too, but just make sure you have loads of different ways and, and that's why like that compound kind of creativity to quote system one is so important because you're kind of adding to kind of all the like different varieties of ways that your brand is being told on the platform.

So it's not just noise, it's being strategic with it. Exactly. Yeah. Let's do some future gazing. Yeah. Okay. We've got a couple more minutes before we do our live text test. Yeah. Um, which I haven't even explained to you yet. No. So it's not, I'm scared. It's not ominous. It's, it's totally fine. Um, [00:30:00]what's exciting you the most at the moment about creative marketing Yeah.

And the future of it. Where are we going? Yeah. I mean, it feels really obvious to say. There's a couple of things. I think, um, one of the things that, um, our CEO of YouTube mentioned at Can mm-hmm. Um, was, and the fact that. Creators are now kind of, that, it's that kind of startup kind of factor like that, that was in Hollywood.

Mm-hmm. Like, it's kind of, they, they've got their own studios, they're kind of creating their own content, like they're becoming huge. Right. The kind of content we're seeing coming out of creators is phenomenal. Mm-hmm. Um, and, and, and, and like you said, the reach, the reach is massive. Right. So I'm really excited to see what else we're gonna see out of creators from that perspective.

Um, and then of course, I mean, I haven't even mentioned the word AI yet, by the way, I can't believe that I have your mouth. I've gotta get it out. Gotta get it out. If you say, I AI influencers, I'm gonna walk, no, no, no, I'm not going. I'm, but what I will talk about is how creators use. Those tools, [00:31:00]right? To help them be more creative and do more things.

And I'm really excited to see, 'cause already we're seeing lots of trends of, um, kind of ai like VO threes being used in a lot of kind of short form content and. I'm obsessed and I dunno why, but I dunno if you've seen it, but it's that as smr content of that glass fruit green cart. Oh yeah. That by the way, could wa I could watch that for so long and I dunno what's wrong with me, but it's, it's incredible having, it's amazing having AI sound gen, um, married up perfectly.

Oh, it's incredible. I'm like, oh my gosh. Do you watch those videos of, that's it's really niche. Go on. They push. Bottles downstairs and see when they smash. No, but that sounds great. I'm gonna gonna send you some links. That sounds great. I, yeah, it is. Absolutely. I love, I mean, I feel like it's obvious, but I love at asmr, but yeah.

And the hydraulic press, that squashes thing. Yes. That's so good. We've got the same feed. Yeah. It's so good. But a lot of that is kind of now developing more and more because mm-hmm. Because of kind of VA three and you know, AI tools at, at, kind of at their disposal. But I'm really excited to see how creators use that.

Yeah. To become more [00:32:00] creative because actually. Gosh, that the world's their oyster then, isn't it? Mm-hmm. Like in terms of what you then create for every, like forget the kind of high production stuff, which will be amazing. What about the everyday stuff that we see? It's just gonna blow our minds and I'm so excited to see where they take that.

'cause, you know, creators are phenomenal. Like when I see how creative some, some of those craters are, I just think, gosh, that's. It's just amazing. Mm-hmm. And yes, I'm really looking forward to seeing kind of where that takes us in terms of the type of content we see. Love that. I think what we've, what history has shown us, give creators something fun.

Yeah. And they'll do something amazing with it. Yeah, absolutely. Make it fun. Make it fun and exciting. Yeah. Um, Nish, those, those. That's my Apple watch. Uh, Nish absolutely loved going through those questions with you. Um, I'm now really excited to introduce you to our lie detector test. Yeah. LinkedIn lie detector test.

Love that. Um, what we've done rather obsessively. Yeah. Is deep dive. Your LinkedIn profile, oh God. Did you update [00:33:00] it much? Not recently. Okay. Not recently. If you looked at it recently. I think I've looked at a message recently I've had on it, but not my Okay. You mean you're not self-obsessed? Yeah. Do you know what, no, dammit I do.

No, I've gotta say I do look at, I do scroll a lot on LinkedIn. Bit stalking. I do. I do a lot of that. And actually I find. I find it's kind of my other kind, it kind of acts as, it's really sad to say it's not my, it is my, I I'm not on many social media platforms, so that's the one that I do go through often, which is really sad, but I totally agree with you on that one.

I, yeah, I did the world too much. LinkedIn just, yeah, I just, it's, but then it's, it's getting a lot like the Can Chat has been a lot recently, so I've had to kind of. Pull back from that. 'cause it slightly overwhelming. It was a lot. Yeah. But, um, but yeah, I'm back into it now. Yeah, I hear you. I feel like LinkedIn is the only part I've deleted.

I've deleted Instagram for a bit. I have, I've had to, I've done a cult, you know. Yeah. I've done a bit of a call. And so LinkedIn's the one that has remained. Yeah, for now. For now. And obviously short, so I lie detector, scoreboard. We've got Fiona from Bupa at 15 top score you can only score 15 points. [00:34:00] She may have had some help.

Okay. I dunno if we've got interesting, fair process here. Uh, and then right at the bottom. Do you know? It doesn't matter. It's me, uh, with seven points. Um, if anything, I don't spend all my life on LinkedIn, sadly. I do. Um, so n I've got a few questions in for you. Okay. Okay. I don't think they'll be hard. I'm not gonna hold this up the whole time, so, right.

Okay. Um, but I will give you your little, your little sticky magnet bit to write your name later on. Oh, it's exciting. And your score, it's like top gear, isn't it? Just less budget. Much less budget. But safer. But safer. Safer much. Um, so I've got a few, a few sections here to power through. Yeah. Uh, so these be rapid fire as quickly as I can read them.

'cause some of them are quite long. Um, section one, origin story. Origin story. Okay. You began your media career as an account executive in 2005, working on both food and film accounts. Which two brands were you assigned to at the [00:35:00] time? Um, Mondelez, but craft, I think it was called Craft then. Mm-hmm. Um, when I started, uh, Warner Brothers, another one that's similar.

Oh, 20th Century Fox. Yes. Congrat. Yeah. So you've got that one. Woo. Um, a bonus point. What is the new name of 20th Century Fox since it was acquired by Disney? Disney plus no Disney. 20th Century. Mm. Is that it? That is it. View that point. Okay. That was a year ago. You announced on LinkedIn that you had completed a professional education program.

What was it called? Oh, it was, um, it was the, it was, I know it was by James Herman. It was like the creative effectiveness. Certificate or something like that. That, yeah. Master of advertising Effectiveness. There you go. Yeah, that's it. Sorry, James. Um, bonus, bonus question. What was voted the most popular subject to study at British schools in 2024?

Advertising. Great. Greater [00:36:00] advertising? No, incorrect. I can give you, oh, sorry. I can give you A, B, C, and D. Okay. Yeah, so you've got a failure on that one. Oh, okay. A mathematics B, English language C, science combined. Rolls off the tongue or d history. So random. Um, I'm going to say history. No, no maths. Maths, math.

Correct. Answer these bonus ones, man. But, but it doesn't have anything to do with your LinkedIn. We saw you went stem. There we go. Let's go back. Yeah, I know. Uh, this is section three. Okay. Star studded supper. Oh, in a repost from a Wacker event, WACL. You shout out to guest speakers. One was Briton's Sharif.

Rin. Who was the other? Asha Day? Ashley Walters. Ashley Walters. Correct answer in the bonus question was, what was the name of the Wacker event, that series you mentioned in the post? Oh. That much of an impression. [00:37:00] I don't remember what the name of the event was. It was like a, should I give you A, B, C, and D?

Yes, please. Power and Presence. Women who Lead Together at the table. Voices in the leadership together. Together at the table, correct? Yeah, that's it. I think I should do A, B, and C for these. It's a little bit fair. Section four Creator campaigns. Last month you attacked in a post celebrating a creator campaign between YouTube and Witch Brand aa, BO two C, Experian.

The NatWest experience. Correct. Yay. Bonus question. Who is the hero talent star starring in the campaign Content that takes place in a school classroom? Nella Rose. Correct. The other options we had here were mania Clo Barrows, Joe bags, Nella Rose, section five International Women's Day icons. In March, you were listed as one of five inspiring women Shaping the creator economy, which I've all learned from.

The below was included in the list. Jenny Ley Jones, Rihanna, prt Grace Beverly, Lily Pebbles. So yeah, Jennifer was there as well. 'cause she, [00:38:00] um, yeah, CEO of Di of Digital Voices, um, uh, grace Beverly. Correct. That was the answer we had here, so. Oh, okay. Great. Do you have a, a medal or crown for that? That's quite a big title.

Do you know what I was? They didn't actually tell Stick get in stride. Yeah. They didn't tell me that that was, um, that was going out. So I got sent it by a work colleague and then it just spread very quickly. I was like, oh my gosh, this is, and then it was literally, I think it was like Grace Beverly and then me, which just doesn't make sense at all.

Doesn't we have Grace Beverlys the answer? So she's like, just such an icon. Um, so ish. Yeah. Oh, well thank you. Yeah, it was, yeah. Massive, massive privilege. Yeah. To be in that list. Yeah. Well. I've got a bonus Yeah. For this one? Yeah. Uh, who is currently the most followed woman on YouTube right now? The most followed woman on YouTube right now.

Do you want a list? Yes. Patricia Bright, Zoe Sugg, Amelia Denberg, Nella Rose. Amelia Denberg incorrect. Oh, sorry. Sucked. Is it Su It is. She's old school, isn't she? Yeah. No, but I get that she's been on the platform for, so she's like [00:39:00] really grown up on the platform and like, and her audience has gone on that journey with her.

Yeah. And so, yeah, I'm not, I'm not surprised by that at all actually. Um. Next section is called Choir Practice. Oh, oh, oh oh. Uh, nine months ago you shared your excitement about joining a new choir for professionals in media and advertising. Yes. What is the name of the choir? A. The Harmony Network. Be the industry choir.

See Adland Singers. The voices of media. It is industry choir. Yeah. Yeah. 'cause some of those are crap. Yeah. Some of those are really bad. It was the industry choir. Yeah. Adland Singers though. Adlans Singers sounds quite good. You know what might suggest that? Yeah. The Harmony Network sounds like a failed cm.

Yeah. No, it also sounds like a dating app. Yeah. Weirdly. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah. Swipe left on that one. Wait, swipe right. I, I don't, I don't, I dunno. Um, and then the bonus for that, which co-founders post did you repost [00:40:00] a Nick Siegel, b Tasha Nicholas, or c Catherine Salmon. Yeah. It was Nick Siegel, correct.

Yeah. And thankfully, the last question in the list. Oh, can you believe it? During Canne Lion Week this year, you said it was been flogged to death. And here we are during another question here. We're here we're I, can he believe it? Yeah. Um, during Canne Lion Week this year, how many LinkedIn reactions, likes, celebrates, et cetera?

Did you hand out like confetti? A eight B, 10 C, 12 D 15? Wait, how do you know that though? I dunno. It's, oh my gosh. Pretty weird. Um. I liked a lot of posts. You did, but I wouldn't say you liked the most. Yeah. Okay, so eight. What was the middle one? A eight B, 10 C 12, 10 C, 12. C 12 or D 15? 12. 12. Correct. 12. What am I doing on there?

Yeah. No life apparently. [00:41:00] Why am I just liking everything? Gosh. Wish I was there. I had so much FOMO though. Yeah. Did you? Yeah. You've got plenty. Plenty of your YouTube co colleagues were there so you can go and get the dos. I know. I know. Next year. Next year. Next year. I'm I'm we'll arrange something. Yeah, please.

Yes, absolutely. We'll insist that you're there. Yeah. With us. Please do. Okay. And then the bonus was, what's the most common emoji used in CAN related LinkedIn posts? A bullseye B, glitter sparkles. C, light bulb B. Ching Ching. Cheers. Emoji. That was D. Cheers. Emoji. Is that what it was? D Cheers emoji. You got it all in?

Yeah. Um, I'm pleased to tell you, you scored a whopping 12. You are officially mediocre, eh? Do you know what? Love that. Take it. Yeah, I'll take it. Queen of YouTube creators. I'll take it. Mediocre at LinkedIn. [00:42:00] That's brilliant. Thank you. I feel like you should be exceptionally proud of your score. Oh, should I write my 12 in there?

Yeah. Yeah. 12, but brackets really 15. You won't fit it on there. Ignore it. I won't fail. But when you do talk about me, do say that. Yeah. And then I'll put a little crown saying that she was, yeah. Top. Yeah. Voice in the creator economy. Yeah, that's, yeah. Yeah. Gotta do all of that. All of the above. First podcast.

Yeah. First. Quiz show moment. Yes. You didn't win anything except the most fulfilling experience I think you can take away from this. I was gonna say, I did win in life. Really didn't. I didn't there, so you did loved it. Yeah. Thank you so much. Join us Nish. Cheers again. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Um, enjoy the rest of your day.

Where can people find you on, on LinkedIn? Yes, please do. Please. I'm not paying much attention apparently. I'm, um, I'm there a lot. Yeah, just liking other people's post. So dishing out the likes. Yeah, dishing out those likes like, you know, batting 'em, batt 'em out, left, right, and center. So yeah, do find me on LinkedIn.

Um. Nisha Matthews, Nisha, Matthew. Um, and thank you so much for listening to this episode. I've really enjoyed invading your ear holes today. [00:43:00] It has been absolutely brilliant. Um, I discovered that phrase and I'm running with it until someone tells me in review to stop saying it 'cause it's a bit intrusive.

Um, we really enjoyed this as ever. Please make sure you leave a review on all your favorite podcasting platforms and give it a, like what? This isn't a YouTube actually, it's a YouTube video because this is going out on YouTube. Um, so I'm expecting you n to send this to everyone at YouTube and please, oh my gosh.

Please watch in entirety. Put it in another tab. I don't care. Yeah. We wanna get that average watch time. Yeah. Okay. Will do. Absolutely. Um, most important metric still. Yeah, isn't it? Yeah. It's a, it's a good metric to have. Yeah. Amongst many others, obviously amongst many important KPIs indeed and objectives to hit Indeed.

But average watch time's really important for podcasts. So, um, I think that's everything. Yeah. Fab, thanks for listening. Speak to you soon. Ciao.